Interview and Photography by Gert Jonkers
Marcelo Krasilcic is a fashion photographer from Brazil. He lives in New York, he occasionally shoots for the wonderful Purple Sexe magazine, and he teaches yoga on Saturday mornings if he has the time. I went to Marcelo’s house in China Town for a heavy workout, topped off by a very relaxing head massage and a big bowl of yogitea. The next day I went back to talk to him.
Let’s start with the sex questions.
Yeah, that makes sense. Since the magazine is about sex.
Did you come to New York for sex?
Nah, I came here to study. Do you want me to be honest or playful with answers?
I came to study and meanwhile I experienced many things, haha.
How desperate were you to get away from Brazil?
I lived in Portugal before I came here, and actually, if it was for sex, I should have stayed in Brazil. Sex is not bad here, but Brazil is better. Much warmer. Flirtier. People have fun in Brazil. Here in New York it’s very clear. You look at someone and that means you wanna fuck, and then you fuck. In Brazil you look at each other for fun and you know, it’s great. And then you fuck.
You studied photography? How old were you?
21.
Why photography?
A friend in Portugal was teaching photography, I took classes and enjoyed it. If you can say visually what you want, it’s amazing.
Were you immediately good at it?
I was immediately trying to say consciously what I wanted.
What are you trying to get across with your photos. Honesty? Realness?
It’s been changing you know, throughout the years. Right now I dwell a bit on duality. For many years it was a dialogue between chance and choice. More recently it’s about dualism and lack of dualism. I think it’s a progression from 2 to 1. If that makes sense.
No.
For many years I questioned how much we were responsible, or how much God or destiny or events were responsible for whatever happens to me individually and to the whole universe. Who is responsible. I? God? For many years the work was about me. When I finished school, a lot of the work was about my sexuality, trying to find and create who I was, recreate my story. Pictures of me in bed having sex with different men. From that it went more into a broad question: what am I doing, am I responsible or is it being done for me? It came to a point where instead of questioning it so much, I just started appreciating the balance between the two, between chance and choice. I could be more specific if you want…
Yes please.
…and more recently I kind of stepped back from myself a little bit and I’m trying to see how everything is related to each other; past, present and future are all one, and I try to translate that into my work. I don’t know if people see that but that’s what I feel.
If you are looking for the relation between chance and choice one could think that you do street photography, or reportages, instead of fashion for instance.
I don’t differentiate things too much. People are very prejudiced and try to seprate things too much. I don’t see very much difference. I think as a photographer, no matter what you say consciously or not, it’s subjective. Somehow everything matters so much to me, but at same time nothing really matters too much. Nothing is worth dying for. Living for, yes, but not dying for. I am very passionate, though.
It’s funny that you talk about duality…I was talking with a friend about you, and she knew you only from your fashion work, whereas I only knew you from your erotic work. But we weren't aware of that, which made it a rather confusing conversation. That’s duality, in a way, but you don’t mean that, do you?
No. When I photograph rooms for example, what I try to see and photograph and report is the arrangement of things. It has a lot to do with my upbringing. My mother is an interior designer. For me it is very much about how the couch is placed in relation to this or that; I grew up seeing my mother doing that. And what I see in that, even if there are no people in the room, is really the people and what their choices were. But at the same time, they were limited by money, geography, season, you can’t find anything you want….Even if you have an infinite amount of money and time, there will always be limitations. That’s what I call chance: what you find in the store, what the person in the store bought. And my interest is not so much the choice or the chance, but how they play together, and appreciating that. It’s not that I would want the things that I photograph for my own apartment, but I can indulge myself in sharing the pleasure that was felt by whoever put that together. And then share that with other people.
I’m surprised. As a fashion photographer, you deal a lot with styling, with arranging things, with directing.
Styling can be fun too. It’s the same thing again: it’s someone’s choice, but it’s limited by so many things. The models I choose, that’s limited by the money I have and the guys that can come and how good the model agency thinks I am. I’m not opposed to that. I’m actually not opposed to a lot of things. Just a few things.
Like what?
Death penalty…I don’t think that’s good.
How important is it to be sexual as a photographer.
What do you mean. Take pictures of sensual things?
No, to be sensual with a model. Flirty. Some people are not sensual at all, and they try to be photographers, and I always feel like saying: please stop, you’re never going to be a good photographer. If you don’t manage to let the model open up his heart, why bother.
I don’t know. Usually the models are more sensual than the photographers, haha. Of course sensuality plays a part, but what I do is try to make the model do what I want him or her to do. If sensuality helps, that’s fine.
You don’t always flirt?
Nah. If I’m attracted I flirt, but…I don’t flirt that much. It can become kind of pathetic after a while too, you see. I’m 32 and some of them are 19-year-old kids. Of course I’m kind of seduced and there’s kind of erotic energy in the air. But I’m very respectful. I am trying to be. I hope I am. The models, you see, they are not there to get fucked. I have this thing that I’m very clear about what I want. If I do a shoot, I do a shoot. And if I do a shoot and I am attracted to the person and I want something else to happen, than it’s another thing.
But shooting for Purple Sexe. Is that erotic?
Some shoots were very erotic, yes. Some were fun. Some were nerve-racking. Like the one shot out of the car window, with the guys on the streets showing their cocks. We approached all those strangers and asked them to show their cocks. You know, street hustlers, and I didn’t know what’s on their mind. A friend of mine was driving the car. We had a laugh too, it’s fun.
You should continue shooting cocks from car windows.
Just cocks? I like to see faces. The face and the cock together. I’ve never been a glory-hole fan. That doesn't do it for me. I like to see. I’m not into darkrooms and gloryholes.
And size. Does that matter?
Yeah, that I like to know. More out of curiosity. But of course size matters.
The bigger the better?
It depends on what you do with it. But yeah, in general I’d say bigger is better. You don’t think so?
No, not always.
I guess for sucking it’s not always good to be big.
Getting fucked is easier when it’s not too big.
I don’t agree. Somehow bigger is better for fucking. The one who gets fucked can relax more easily if it’s a big cock. Because you absolutely have to relax. With fucking it’s like you really need to want to get fucked, otherwise it doesn't work.
There’s a certain dualism between excitement and relaxation in getting fucked.
Why do they have to be separated? They can be complimentary to each other.
So your early work was already on sex. Was it your final project at school?
Yeah. In college I went to counseling sessions from Linda Montano, a performance artist in the sixties and seventies. You don’t know her? At some point she was tied up to somebody, a complete stranger, for a year. They did not separate. That was her art. It was great, her work dealt with fear and you know, it was really confronting. And for me, my work was about my sexuality, making sure I felt good about it. I never thought for too long that photography was about reality. It’s really about creating whatever reality you want there to be. It’s a good way to express things.
Did you do those photos of yourself having sex also for practical reasons, so that you didn’t need to find all the models?
Nah. I shot a lot of people. A lot of men at that time that I was with were very open about me photographing them. I made lots of pictures.
How was it to show that at school?
That was fun.
I always thought the Americans were all a bit prudish.
I don’t know. It didn’t cause any trouble. I wanted my photos to be hung in the lobby, and that was a bit of a fight. It was the most visual spot in school. They wanted me on the 8th floor. But I got the lobby.
And how was your interest in spirituality raised?
It’s really funny. This friend of mine from school gave me a yoga class for Christmas. She’s Jewish and my family is Jewish. So I went to yoga. And I really loved it. It changed my life in many ways. I can’t think of who I’d be without it. For the last year I have been going 4 to 6 times per week.
Have you been today?
Yeah. It was good. There’s no practice on Saturday, and not on a full moon or a new moon.
What effect has it had on your personality?
I guess what I said about chance and choice, that’s a lot from yoga. I don’t eat meat or poultry, that’s an influence too. It made me much stronger. Sexually it changed a lot as well. It’s the same practice, in a way. Devotional. A matter of surrendering. A lot of what happens is just being very open and allowing the energy to flow.
Wasn't it Sting who said he had sex for 32 hours after yoga?.
I don’t know. I never had sex for 32 hours. I need to sleep and eat. But tell me one thing: where is this interview going? It’s kind of boring so far. I’m very excited about a lot of things, about my life, but it’s kind of boring to talk about it. What do you want from me?
I just try to follow my fascination. After yesterday’s yoga session, I was very intrigued by you. You came across so strong. Very dominant. That struck me.
That’s what classes are about. You come and the teacher tells you what to do. Hahahaha. I love telling people what to do.
Instead of being told?
I like saying what to do. One thing I like about photography is that I get to tell people what to do. Sexually too, I love telling people what to do.
Can you be carried away instead of being in charge, sexually.
Yeah, sometimes I like to be overruled. But I’d rather be in charge. It’s nice to find a balance as well. Nice to switch. But I like things my way.
Are you in a relationship?
No. I would like to be. That would be a good thing. But at the same time things are nice.
You don’t work on it?
There’s only so much you can do about it. I go and meet people and see what’s there.
Have you had affairs?
Yeah. And I’m not a big advocate of casual sex, but I do get horny, and I’ve had some pretty amazing experiences. I’ve had a lot of fun. New York is very easy in sex. If you want sex you just have to know where to go. It’s not bad.
Is it easier than anywhere else?
Maybe I’m familiar with how it works. It’s very distinct. You go out for sex and you meet someone and you have sex. I don’t think its ideal, but it’s not a bad thing either. What else can I tell you. I have two wonderful cats, a great place to live in.
And you get turned on by reading porn?
Yes, and I love watching porn. I rented a nice porn movie yesterday, that was great. I think all porn in general could be better. With exception of Straight To Hell which is pretty genius, and that magazine G from Brazil that I showed you yesterday, and Butt of course.
About G, what is so good about it?
It has famous straight Brazilian men posing naked. Porn is all about fantasy and the fantasy of these big straight guys posing with a hard-on is great. I grew up looking at straight porn and magazines full of naked girls, and my universe of fantasy and excitement is so much on the men’s side, so now to see those magazines with straight guys is fun. It’s like going to Disneyland.
But most porn is terrible?
Well, yeah. Do you know this film called Hero? It was done in the seventies. Pretty amazing, a great plot. I like a bit of a plot. A lot of porn could be better. I thought about doing movies, but it’s too much work. I don’t know if I want to spend all that energy. Making movies is such a hassle. Have you seen Moulin Rouge? It’s great. That credit line is pretty pwoeffff. Let’s go see it this week. I could see it again. It’s so much fun.
Ever thought of doing porn photography?
It’s a bit relative, what is porn? Is Butt porn? Is Purple Sexe porn? I’ve shot for Inches once, that’s porn. But other than that…I do nudes and erotic work, and I’m planning to do some other stuff. I think, unless you’re involved with the production of porn, you make very little money, and I do better things for little money than porn. At least I hope, hahaha. But I love doing nudes. All the time. I’m gonna do something for this book called Porn?, so I guess I do porn.
What’s that book?
It’s British. A question mark on porn. Don’t like the name so much.
What happens to people if they are naked?
It depends. If they are men and they are turned on they get a hard-on. Hahahahaha. So many things happen when people are naked. You show something that’s supposed to be private and that you show in the open, and I appreciate that out of curiosity, but I appreciate it mostly out of surrender. At the same time that you say okay this is my body, this is who I am, while for me at the same time, what I try to photograph is that you are not the body, you just happen to have it for a while. So there’s a sense of abandonment and surrendering, which I think is beautiful. Well, and I love seeing people naked, for the same resaon that I love seeing a space, I think that’s great. Whatever you do with it. Right now a lot of my work has to do with surrender. The pictures I’m sending to this book ‘Porn?’ are of this friend who is 8-months pregnant. She has a huge belly, she’s very open.
I mean, the thing for me is, there’s a quality that connects the work I’ve done, but also in all the projects I’ve done I tried to be specific. Like an actor, every character is from a different movie, but at the same time there is a connection, a commonality of characters. I see my work that way, which is different from a lot of people, they shoot the same way for everybody. I think my work has a very distinct signature, but at the same time every project is very specific. When I did the Brazilian issue of Purple Sexe I didn’t want it to be hardcore; I wanted it to be sweet. I find it cute. Someone with a hard-on can be very sweet. That picture of Bernhard in Butt with a hard on is quite sweet too. I like that, that openness.
Do clothes turn you on?
Turn me on sexually? Just the clothes without the people in them? No.
You don’t go through fashion mags…
…with a hard on? No. I love clothes very much. I get excited, but not sexually. I like the mixture between having a concept and bringing the transformation, and also having to reach an audience and make money. I like the balance. The few people who can balance it are pretty much geniuses. Like Viktor & Rolf for example. I would like to shoot Rolf. Could you arrange that?
You want him full-frontally naked?
I’m sure he won’t do that. But that’s good. Butt shouldn't become a mag for naked fashion designers. I think the next issue should have you and your friend Jop naked. Would be good. That’s why I posed naked for Purple Sexe. I did the autofellatio shot for the first issue, because if I ask people to pose naked for a magazine, I should do the same. It’s kind of respectful somehow. I think it’s important that if you ask people to do things, you should be willing to do the same, otherwise it’s not really fair.
It’s not that you wanted to show the world that you could suck your own dick?
Not necessarily. I can, but it’s a lot of work. You have to bend really hard.
I often dream of it.
Of sucking your own cock? I don’t think it’s worth it. What’s fun about getting a blowjob is that someone is giving you that blowjob. At least in my case, it’s a lot of work to suck my cock.
And you do yoga. You’re flexible.
I am, but it’s still work. I have easier times with back bends than forward bends. So maybe I can lick my own butthole once. That would be fun. That would be a good picture.
Is there something work wise that you would really like to do?
Oh yeah, many things. I’d love to be doing bigger campaigns.
You wouldn't say no to Gucci?
I’d love to do that. Totally. I’ve been very fortunate to do work I care very much about and with amazing people. I would love to bring that into the bigger campaign world.
Do you do free, uncommissioned work?
Yeah lots of different things. All the interiors that I did. And I shot my dad in his swimming trunks on a bed. My dad really enjoyed it but my mother was furious when she saw the photos.
Can I make a photo of you?
Sure. And I’d like to interview you too, some time. We can talk some more about sex, ‘cause I still feel that’s missing in this conversation.
I should ask questions like have you ever been in a situation where your cock wasn't big enough?
For instance. Or just simple questions. Like how old are you? What’s your height? I’m 32, I’m 6.1 inches, which is 184cm, I weigh 175 pounds which I think is about 76 kilo’s. I have hazel green eyes. And a very big cock.
Are you good at multi-tasking? To suck and get sucked at the same time?
I can, but I like to either suck or get sucked, I recently found a great position to get sucked. Cause my dick is so big that usually it’s not very pleasurable to get sucked, like there’s too much, the teeth and so. But I found this great position that really changed things. Me, I’m not the best cocksucker. I’m just okay.
What is the position you found?
Oh, the guy has to lay down in bed, facing up, with his head kind of off the bed a little bit, and then I can stand up and stick my whole cock in. And then it’s reeeally fun.
So your cock doesn't really stand up vertically when it’s hard. Oh well, I guess big cocks never really stand up.
Yes, but for this thing I have to really point it down. It’s fun. You can sort of lie down too, you don’t have to be fully standing up. It takes some coaching, but it’s fun.
Ever slept with a woman?
Had sex? Yeah. I’ve had great sex with women. I think pussy is better for dick than anything else. It’s made for it. But I prefer men so much more, I don’t have the inclination to sleep with a woman any time soon.
How old were you the first time?
With a women 13, with a man 16 or 17.
What were the great experiences you remember?
I once had great sex in an ashram, in the countryside. I was put in this room with a supposed-to-be straight man from Uruguay, and the walls were really thin, we couldn't make any noise, and we had this wonderful sex there. I’ve had great sex in planes too.
Super. How do you do that without being noticed?
Bathrooms. Blankets. Really exciting.
Are you romantic?
Yeah, very romantic. New York is not the best place for romance. It’s very sexual as I said before. Fast. In and out. In and out. Just fast. What about you? You should write about the sex you had here in New York, won’t you? And if you give me his number I’ll take a picture of him. And you publish it next to the article. That would be good. ‘Hi this is Marcelo Krasilcic calling. I am a photographer, and I hear you had sex with this guy who’s writing an article about it for a magazine called Butt, can I come and take some pictures of you?’ That would be great.
Sure. Great plan. I’ll give it a thought.
Good. And by the way, I just think of something. I think you should make every interview in Butt as many pages as the inches of the cock of the person you interview. That would be a great concept.
How much would that be for you, than?
Nine pages.
That’s great. We’ll see what we can do.
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